In a candid and exclusive interview with the BBC, Brazil’s President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva made his sharpest comments yet about his relationship—or lack thereof—with US President Donald Trump.
“There’s no relationship,” Lula declared bluntly, underlining that there has been virtually no communication between the two leaders since Trump returned to office.
Lula has never been shy about criticising Trump, but this statement makes it clearer than ever that ties between Washington and Brasília are at one of their lowest points in recent memory.
The tariffs controversy
The most visible flashpoint came in July, when Trump announced a hefty 50% tariff on Brazilian exports, even though the United States usually enjoys a trade surplus with Brazil. The move shocked Lula’s administration.
Trump justified the tariffs by pointing to the ongoing trial of Brazil’s former president Jair Bolsonaro, who was charged with plotting a coup.
Lula dismissed the reasoning outright, calling the measures “eminently political” and warning that ordinary Americans would ultimately bear the costs through higher prices on Brazilian goods such as coffee, beef, and other staples.
At the time, Lula remarked: “The American people will pay for the mistakes President Trump is incurring in his relationship with Brazil.”
Since then, the two presidents have had no direct conversation.
Why hasn’t Lula called Trump
Pressed on why he hadn’t tried to personally reach out, Lula told the BBC: “I never tried that call because he never wanted to have a conversation.”
While Trump has publicly said Lula could “call him anytime,” the Brazilian president rejected the suggestion, saying Trump’s team had made it clear that no dialogue was welcome. What frustrated Lula further was how he learned of the tariffs—not through official diplomatic channels, but by reading Brazilian newspapers.
He criticised Trump for announcing such decisions on social media instead of through formal communication: “He just published them on his portal. That’s not a civilised way to deal with international relations.”
For Lula, the conclusion was simple: “There’s no relationship.”
Lula’s wider global ties
Even with Washington ties strained, Lula was quick to point out that Brazil is not isolated. He listed his long-standing connections with former US presidents, British prime ministers, the European Union, China, Ukraine, and Venezuela.
He defended his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, recalling that their bond was forged when both led their respective countries in earlier years. “I don’t have a relationship with Trump because when Trump was elected the first time, I wasn’t president. His relationship is with Bolsonaro, not Brazil,” he explained.
Lula added that he would not be hostile if he encountered Trump at the United Nations General Assembly: “I would greet him because I am a civilised citizen. But Trump may be president of the United States—he is not emperor of the world.”
Bolsonaro and Trump’s criticism
The Brazilian president also addressed the shadow of his predecessor, Jair Bolsonaro, who was recently convicted by Brazil’s Supreme Court for attempting a coup and sentenced to 27 years in prison. Lula accused Bolsonaro and his allies of inflicting serious damage on the nation: “They hurt the country, attempted a coup, and plotted my death.”
He also criticised Trump for defending Bolsonaro and claiming that Brazil was undermining democracy. Lula drew a sharp comparison with the January 6 Capitol riot in Washington, saying: “If such an event had happened in Brazil, Trump himself would have been put on trial.”
Calls for UN reform
Looking beyond bilateral disputes, Lula aimed at the United Nations system, which he said was outdated and unfit for modern challenges. He criticised the veto powers of the five permanent members of the Security Council, arguing that this arrangement prevented effective action on global crises.
“The UN reflects the world after World War Two, excluding billions of people represented by Brazil, Germany, India, Japan, and Africa,” he said, urging for structural reform.
Russia, China, and Gaza
Lula defended Brazil’s economic dealings with Russia, particularly in the energy sector. He clarified that Brazil buys Russian oil purely for its own needs and not to support Moscow’s war in Ukraine.
In the Middle East, Lula did not mince words. He described the situation in Gaza not as a war but as a “genocide,” underscoring Brazil’s strong stance on human rights.
Amazon oil exploration
The president also addressed one of the most controversial issues at home: Brazil’s plans for oil exploration near the Amazon River. Environmental groups have criticised the move, but Lula insisted that Brazil is acting within the law.
“Brazil would be liable, responsible, and take care of any problem,” he said, pledging accountability in case of oil spills. At the same time, he raised a global challenge: “I want to know of any country that is ready for an energy transition and capable of giving up fossil fuels entirely.”
2026 re-election question
As for his political future, the 79-year-old leader said he has not yet decided whether to run again in 2026. His decision, he explained, would depend on his health, his party’s support, the political climate, and whether he has a real chance of winning.
Although Lula’s approval ratings have recently dipped, he noted that his popularity received a boost at home after Trump’s tariff announcement, which many Brazilians viewed as an unjust attack.
Lula’s interview painted the picture of a seasoned statesman determined to project Brazil as an independent global player, unafraid to criticise Washington, defend controversial ties, and push for reform on the world stage. For now, his message about Trump remains firm: respect Brazil, or risk damaging the relationship further.
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